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Being meguca is suffering
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File: 1398283750320.png (1.07 MB, 893x502, MadokaCharacters.png)

No.5237[Reply]

I'm pretty sure a lot of us here disagree when dissenters of the franchise suggest that [most of] the characters "don't HAVE a character" or "are badly-written"… To us, they just don't understand much of anything about the series or its characters.

But let's turn this around. Rather than simply defend the series, I want to understand how it is these people view the series. Plenty of smart people I know have said this, and some of them still liked the series for its message or plot. I refuse to believe they don't have a reason to say it that way, even if I don't agree with them. What potential "flaws" in the series prevent the characters from meaning anything to other people?

Discuss!
9 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

No.5248

So, from the main cast, that leaves Madoka and Sayaka. However, Madoka doesn't really change either, except in the details which are determined by her immediate circumstances. From the beginning she is morally flawless, and unshakable in her belief that hope and friendship can prevail. Madoka's happiness and self-worth are tied directly to how useful she thinks she is to others—she basically says as much throughout the series, and Drama CD 1: "Memories of You" makes it even more explicit. That's who she is, and that does not change throughout the final timeline. Sure, she struggles a bit with fear, but we always have the sense that the real issue is just that she doesn't know what to wish for. Ironically, Madoka does change as a character in some of the previous timelines (especially #3) but the audience only glimpses the results. Episode 10 covers so much so quickly that some viewers still don't seem to understand even after repeated viewings.

No.5249

Thus, the only character whose arc plays out during the main progression of the series is Sayaka. For viewers who are accustomed to being spoon-fed by the "rules" of Hollywood/TV storytelling, this is a shock. Digging for hidden meanings/symbols is one thing, but digging for characterization? That's too weird. But it's exactly what PMMM asks of the audience. Normally the viewpoint character would do most of the work of explaining the focal characters to the audience. Madoka can't do that for Mami, Kyouko, or Homura because she doesn't understand them herself. So you have to be the one to pay attention: it's a line of dialog here; it's a reaction shot there. A wealth of characterization exists in the series, but only if you notice it. Even if you do notice it, you probably can't understand it until the second viewing.

No.5250

To add to Anon's wall above, I think a lot of the subtleties that round out the cast are actually "unnecessary" to drive and support the plot and the main themes of the story. These non-character elements have enough material to give a healthy dose of insomnia-by-contemplation, even if you see the characters as nothing but payloads for events and symbolism. Some people may leave their character understanding at that yet still appreciate the rest of the show.

Personally, it took me two to three viewings to see Mami and Kyoko as people.

No.5251

>>5243
>Does anyone remember how they felt about the characters after their first viewing?

Indeed, I did start off in the thread suggesting that I don't know why some of these people said what they have, but I actually had some general ideas because during its broadcast, a few points in the series ended up feelings pretty off-putting to me. In particular, I had actually been misled by the atmosphere of the series in my own mind to think that MAMI was the suspicious one, so my own assumptions backfired on my experience when she turned around with tears in her eyes in front of Madoka. That had me realizing "Oh, wait. Was I wrong?" and I ended up re-watching the first three episodes with a friend, carrying "She's not a suspicious person after all" in mind. Kyouko's sudden change, too, felt awkward until I went back to re-watch up to episode 8 with another friend and considered her past in relation to her actions beforehand and it was actually less obvious, but still made sense.

No.5252

Throughout the broadcast, I ended up re-watching up to the current broadcast episode a lot, so those thoughts of disparity were left in the distance by the ending of the show, which was, again, pretty off-putting when my narrow-minded expectations were "This show is going to end pretty ugly." Not so much because it didn't end ugly, but because the turning point was literally the break-off from episode 11 to episode 12 (even though they were broadcast together, the two episodes were the complete opposite in atmosphere and 25 minutes of action-less hope to end 25 minutes of spiraling despair felt weird at first). But yet again, it made complete sense and felt much smoother on my second viewing, when I knew what was going to happen and why.

In other words, as everyone here has been saying, Madoka's development in both characters and plot might simply be non-linear. For those who value a linear progression, that is very likely a strike against it, but for those who value being able to get something out of multiple viewings, that can be a huge strength. So "perspective" is huge.



File: 1396156577547.png (5.36 MB, 893x5516, RebellionMado.png)

No.4959[Reply]

Rebellion imagery topic! Symbolism, visual foreshadowing, creative architecture, etc.
Basically, post screenshots (camrip, BD rip) of things in Rebellion you wish to talk about or show everyone.

For starters, I just compiled all the instances of the white window I could find in the BD release. It's pretty obvious that it's meant to symbolize the boundary between Homura's barrier and the outside world. Note that I only compiled images of the white window. There are similar windows in the film, such as right outside the incubator containment field, on some walls, and on the elephant carriage, but those don't just appear out of nowhere or show some connection to Madoka, so I won't consider them relevant.
38 posts and 10 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

No.5212

File: 1397944715106.jpg (626.56 KB, 1280x1440, Clipboard06.jpg)

I just noticed that Homura does the same pose Madoka does in Episode 8.

Might just be a coincidence though.

No.5231

>>5212

Interesting comparison. I see this pose with a lot of characters in SHAFT, though, so I don't think it was a direct reference back to the original series. It'd still be interesting to go into a deep analysis on what situations characters tend to make that pose and how the screen acts during them.

No.5232

I noticed there are some antitheses with some imagery common in Nietzsche's work.

First, there is the overflowing chalice/cup, which appears in Also Sprach Zarathustra towards the beginning, which is described as overflowing with golden joy. Violet being a complimentary color to gold might indicate the cup is filled with despair. If we look at the manga it's also possible she's drinking her melted soul gem, which would be sort of fucked up.

In addition, in both the Gay Science and Essay Two of On the Genealogy of Morals, "On Guilt, Bad Conscience and Related Matters", Nietzsche says that mankind will make a realization about himself that will help him overcome Nihilism at the hour of noon. Homura's realization comes at the hour of midnight, and she succumbs to nihilism as a result.

No.5235

>>5232
The complimentary color thing seems like a stretch, especially since the runes on her table's umbrella shaft say "die Ewige Wiederkehr des Gleichen" (the eternal return of the same). Dionysus—the god of wine, music, and dance (among other things)—is a much more significant concept in Nietzsche's work. Particularly in his later thought the Dionysian stands for the creative employment of the passions and the affirmation of life in spite of suffering—as it were, for the synthesis of the Dionysian, as originally conceived, with the Apollonian—and it is contrasted with the Christian negation of life and extirpation of the passions. Overflowing is also a fairly common image in Nietzsche's work, ironically appropriated from his Lutheran upbringing, usually meaning that it is excess of inner power/strength/health/whatever, rather than anything external, which really motivates great achievements.

No.5236

>>5232
The midnight thing is another Nutcracker reference. See, e.g.: http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi210567961/
Note the grandfather clock with the owl on top.



File: 1398033451611.jpg (384.11 KB, 1920x1080, akuma.jpg)

No.5217[Reply]

No.5218

do you know if there are any translations for the movie theatre OP things? I have the blu ray Rebellion, but those are not translated. I know that the one w/mayoi was translated, but I cannot find any of the other ones

No.5219

>>5217

Wow, I'm really glad the Quartet made Chiwa Saitou retake this part. The 1st take really felt way out of character.

No.5229

>>5218

I watched them and they're hilarious. I don't mind translating them for any group that plans to sub them. I can do the on-screen text, too. From what I remember, Mayoi says, "Make a contract with me and become a lost child!" and Kyuubey is like, "What exactly are you?" to Ougi and Ougi shrugs and is like, "Even I don't know. At least I'm not a Witch!" or something like that. They're pretty funny. Especially when you realize some of the things in Mayoi's video were cut off the screen in the camrip. XD

No.5230

>>5219

Urobuchi thought it would've been out of character, but even he liked the voice acting. The real reason they did a re-take, though, was because they wanted the audience to decide for themselves whether or not what she did was good or bad. If they made her sound too emotional, it would've most likely misled a lot of people into thinking she went insane and made a negative choice or something. Regardless, the staff loved it enough to include it on the BD, so that's saying something, at least.

No.5234

1st take is not out of character.
And it's not really much different from actual release.
People just have a choice to think now, is she really evil or not.



File: 1385489855412.jpg (925.95 KB, 2056x2752, 01.jpg)

No.4357[Reply]

I guess i'll post it here…
58 posts and 40 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

No.5153

Grendel, fuck off ya goddamn kike. nobody wants your nigger shit here. Go and fuck yerself laddy with a silver spoon. I claim this in the name of the GPA of Politics and War. None of you degenerate bastards got shit on me

No.5216

File: 1398006397125.jpg (2.73 MB, 2096x3020, 22.jpg)

I wonder what happened here…


[RAW] Kirara Magica Vol 13

https://mega.co.nz/#!pNBDDR6S!UQyla4nibA1zLt4r7R3YQY9x-_kZIgqSNZvidJHA_RM

No.5223

>>5216
Could you port this to mediafire?
My computer seems to have problem with mega

No.5225

>>5216
Kirika thought Oriko's douchebag (blood relation) uncle was a shady oyaji and punted him in the face.

This page is where she finds out that he also happens to be a member of Parliament.

No.5228




File: 1398052113440.png (23.51 KB, 97x90, Meguca Rabullion.png)

No.5220[Reply]

how many meduka meguca shots can we find with "quality animation" that we can make our own meguca rebellion story?

"We save Hikitoni!"

No.5221

>>5220
An anon on /a/ who claimed to be the original creator of Meduka Meguca said that he already tried and there wasn't enough QUALITY in Rebellion for that.

No.5222

>>5221
I knew this would happen! I knew it!

No.5224

>>5222
That someone would claim to be the original creator or that Rebellion would be QUALITYless?

No.5226

>>5224
The latter. I think I predicted this in an old thread.



File: 1397959589270.jpg (981.59 KB, 2253x3200, 000 Dust Jacket.jpg)

No.5215[Reply]



File: 1397951329712.png (48.02 KB, 150x150, Grendle picture.png)

No.5214[Reply]

Anyone here interested in a raid on politicsandwar.com? They have recently raided a bunch of websites, specifically the admin and some higher ups in the game. Most recently, they tried to raid the game Worlds at War. Several other websites are going to participate


File: 1397774254738.jpg (33.78 KB, 480x640, WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN.jpg)

No.5171[Reply]

Nagisa's original design was so much better than her current design.

>hair and eye colors match her clothes

>coherent palette as orange meguca instead of a white/brown/pink mismatched abomination
>actually resembles Charlotte
>fits the series visuals instead of sticking out like a sore thumb

I get the feeling that Nagisa/Bebe would have been a LOT more popular and well-received if she actually looked similar to what fans imagined her to be like, and if they didn't change Charlotte's face into a demented grin for no reason. Thanks to Shinbo/Taniguchi, Nagisa became wasted potential.
23 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

No.5208

File: 1397843009864.jpg (75.42 KB, 460x666, You on the Right.jpg)


No.5209

>>5190

Homura with a beret? Oh my goodness, that's a brilliant design! I like the coat, too!

Back on topic, I think that Nagisa's final design would be a little better if she didn't have the ears on her hat, and if her eyes weren't so… rainbow.

Seriously, the style of her eyes is completely inconsistent with the characters in the rest of the franchise. I can cope with them not being the same as her hair color, but the mix-n-match yellow and orange just doesn't really fit, if you ask me.

No.5210

Interestingly, I just read the interview from Kirara 12 today with Urobuchi. He basically says that he doesn't know how, but before he knew it, Nagisa practically just suddenly existed as a character.

No.5211

>>5210
Hmm, well we need context to be sure, but that happens quite a bit in writing.

No.5213

>>5198
It does make sense that having a younger sister too look after would make Mami happy.



File: 1397754536392.png (1.14 MB, 1280x1024, Eg5kejG.png)

No.5166[Reply]

what if Shrek was in Madoka Magica?

No.5167

File: 1397754760251.png (4.36 MB, 1920x1200, YvV2rUA.png)

this is the image I meant

No.5193

File: 1397796534249.jpg (96.7 KB, 488x840, My homura cant be this emo.jpg)

I think you meant this one

No.5194

File: 1397817665694.jpg (92.41 KB, 600x668, 1396560543777.jpg)

>>5193
>mixing best meguca with worst girl

No.5195

>>5167

SHREKGUCA IS LOVE, MEDUREK IS LYFE.



File: 1397779014461.jpg (1.94 MB, 6105x4087, homurape.jpg)

No.5177[Reply]

So I'm derping on the net, and I come across alot of hate regarding madoka magica because of Rebellion. I mean I was a little dissapointed at the ending of rebellion… but like… are people really that mad over this? I mean it isn't like the series is ending on a sickly bitter note.

Also what does everyone mean by "OMG REBELLION HAS LOTS OF FANSERVICE UUGHHHH" I only saw Sayaka x Kyoko stuff (which is canon), mami in a towel, and Sayaka's cute headbump to madoka.

Well… that aside from Homura gushing about how much she loves Madoka.

-A lost meguca

No.5179

Rebellion is the movie we deserve, but not the movie we want.

More seriously, I view it as a troll…and as someone who thinks fandoms need to be trolled, I like it tremendously.

No.5180

The dream world was similar to many scenarios that fans wanted and stretched out for a good bit of the movie. The length of Homura's fight with Mami can be considered fanservice. Plus Homura's Akuma outfit.

Everyone is happy, but they more or less seemed to have completely lost the identities they previously built through being magical girls, and Homura's happiness is a bitter masochistic one while many fans wanted to see her ascend with Madoka. In comparison to the original series Homura also seems a lot more pathetic.

No.5181

>>5180
Actually, I would say just as many fans wanted to have an ending where Madoka and Sayaka somehow came back to life.

Rebellion ends like this, but at one heck of a price tag, meaning no-one really gets what they want. But it's Madoka Magica, everything has a price and you never get what you want anyway.

No.5184

It's easy to get the wrong impression of Rebellion from just one playthrough of the film. Comparing it to the original series, I saw a LOT of people who liked the build up to the last two episodes feel completely jaded by the ending of the series, when the general atmosphere of the last episode was basically the same whiplash we got from Rebellion, except from creepy and despairing to full of hope. It took a little time after the first viewing for a lot of people to start appreciating what the series had to say by doing that, and I think it's the same case with Rebellion.

The truth of the matter is that the characters, even if they might be slightly different from what people remember (due to a changed world from the series' ending and Homura's labyrinth memory-altering powers), are still consistent. Especially Homura. It's just hard to see this for some people because during the build-up in the film, characters had a lot of sudden changes, as per their personalities' roles in the plot. So consistency requires a lot of attention to pick out and toss what should and shouldn't be taken seriously and for what reasons.

No.5185

Not to mention, the original TV series was very thematically tied together and meaningful. Rebellion has a lot of different themes present, but the film and its creators purposely derailed many of those themes for the sake of leaving the end to the interpretation of the viewer (as what was said in the BD LE's booklet). And for some people, that may be considered laziness, whereas those who know the truth (read the booklet) realize that they put a lot of effort into strengthening that ambiguity.

There's still a lot to talk about with Rebellion, though, including its flaws. Even the original series had some major flaws. It's just a matter of what we end up caring about that affects our experiences.



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