/meduka/ - Meduka Meguca

Being meguca is suffering
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Remember that overly long reddit post on Rebellion and fanservice? Here's another take on it: http://wrongeverytime.com/2014/07/14/the-rising-tide-madoka-rebellion-and-communal-culture/
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>These things are subjective but you keep trying to deal with them as if they are universal.

I used the universal term, "one in general", because I assumed that not being able to subsist on abstract hope is the usual case. The fact that outliers like Homura (who had the best chance of becoming saintly) need tangible realizations of their belief makes this addition to the theme of "what is hope" a reasonable one. It also places more importance on the concrete individual rather than the abstract ideal. I don't think we disagree on this thematic supplement, we're just arriving at it from different directions.

Where this thematic supplement failed for me was in that part I mentioned I didn't feel (and where we can only agree to disagree). I couldn't differentiate Homura's yearning between that of a fasting saint or that of a starving castaway. A saint can impossibly transform a vital need into a "mere" want. Which is why the reasonable argument needed to be backed something parallel to reason.


>Even in the hypothetical scenario where your optimistic interpretation was correct, the large character changes shown at the end of episode 12 are unjustified and unearned.
>At the end of that conversation [with Madokami], she remained unconvinced and seriously distressed.

It was her kneejerk reaction. People need time to internalize experience, which is precisely why there's an ambiguous time skip before the abrupt changes are presented. You imply that it's a short duration, but it could be much longer (unless I missed some temporal marker). The thematic momentum regarding the inevitability of change makes it a matter of connecting the dots. The specifics are unnecessary at this point and the lack of them allow for the pessimistic interpretation.

Again, I reiterate that I'm not arguing for the inevitability of a warm ending, but the possibility of it. It's important that the epilogue can still be interpreted grimly. In this sense, the narrative's not being deceptive. It's the opposite: it's being brutally honest about the possibility space which contains both uplifting and depressing fates. Rebellion, then, doesn't reveal past deception, it picks a path within that space and makes it canon.

The removal of this ambiguity is a delicate operation because, to repeat myself, the ambiguity and possibility of the optimistic end reinforces the discussion of hope (>>5720) and the nature of change, which I'll go into next.


>You complain about Rebellion violating the "show, don't tell" principle when the end of episode 12 doesn't even tell why some characters have seemingly undergone abrupt changes.
>You scrutinize Rebellion. You "feel it needed to elaborate."

Anon posting makes it hard to go back to this point, but I did say early on that Rebellion is factually solid regarding its justifications. Instead, the elaboration I'm looking for is in the meaning behind Rebellion picking the grim interpretation of the series' ending.

For example, one discussion point in the series regarding change is the effect of isolation on its direction. Isolation tends to crystalize a worldview, and each character arc explores a different take on that and how contact with others shatters it. The association of a seemingly conversant Homura to the optimistic fate is a bridge to this statement.

Rebellion closes off this bridge to discuss introspective self-doubt as a parallel catalyst to change. It drives her to discover her own maze (contrasted with Mami's lack of doubt, which is the significance of their duel). It's also the cause of her past grief. Interesting double-edged sword!

But the conclusion doesn't bridge to this statement on doubt (Akuma Homura's smug confidence is almost Mami-like) and it's not reinforced by a latticework of parallel example since Homura is the primary focus. The makes the statement seem floating and in need of elaboration compared to the series' statement on isolation that it closed off.


>It does address them. To do that, it leverages other ideas and themes that the series already established.
>[paraphrased other theme:] A wish for others' wellbeing is flawed.

I wouldn't say that the series paints this as inevitable. Rather, I'd say it suggests a response to this dilemma: limit meddling to some (vaguely described) level, but ultimately let the others pursue their own wellbeing. This is seen in Madoka's mother letting Madoka go, Madoka's failure at supporting Sayaka and the forced distancing of Sayaka/Kyousuke and Homura/Madoka framed as potentially optimistic in the epilogue.

Rebellion argues that Homura's love is incompatible with this distance. I have no objection to it being this way (and Sayaka's distancing from Kyousuke and its underlying meaning is retained). But then, the description of this love feels lacking.

For example, Homura lovingly makes a debatable value judgement for Madoka regarding Madoka's two contradictory aspects: her appreciation of others and her messianic complex which, in the extreme, separates her from the others she likes to be with. What themes get linked to this dangerous endeavor? The self-doubt angle could've a good fit; doubt drives one to double-check justifications of their final decision. But the valuation is shown as easily confident instead of agonising. Without thematic backing, the finality of this decision seems arbitrary with regards to meaning, even if the math checks out.


I need a break from all this, so raise up your flag if you want. But in the end, I'm going to give Rebellion another reevaluation, under the angle that perhaps seeing the conclusion as finalizing and solid muffles the themes in the same way as seeing the series' conclusion as unambiguous. Though it's a bit off the path from your points, that's what's pulling me in for a relook, especially since consistency is often the vanguard argument against those put off by Rebellion.

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This is a message to anyone who wants to join in the Madoka scanlation project, or who has interest in it (feel free to post here anonymously, but we at least want to distinguish people from each other in IRC):

We have decided our most active time shall start around [UTC-6 - 21:00], and sometimes an hour earlier, depending on the day. There are no set meetings yet, but if we can get people on at this time every day, we can talk more regularly about what's going on in our lives and how to get our work out more efficiently, instead of grabbing at straws whenever I or someone else is busy or away for a long time and cannot submit/complete our work.

If you cannot make it at that time, let us know what time you CAN make it, and don't forget to include your timezone. I'm doing my best to be online 24/7 to reply immediately to the chat or take messages (if I'm not, I apologize), so even if you cannot meet with the whole group, you can still contribute.

Don't be afraid to just check it out, either. While we do want commitment, I've found that teams work best when no one is pressured and everyone is working on something because they want to. So if you realize you cannot or do not want to continue your contributions, don't be afraid to tell us. We cannot judge you for your life priorities. Anyway…

IRC channel information:

Server: Rizon
Channel: madokatrans
Main active time: UTC-6 21:00 (9:00pm) *make sure to look this up in your own timezone

See you there! =3
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Presumably from a smartphone.



4G network on my phone. I can access the internet on it, but I have yet to put an IRC client on it. I know there's a way to do it, but I hear it's tedious and not worth it for most people, so I'm not interested in trying.


Should've expected as much, ok, see you later then.


Once again, I will be logged in, but absent tonight. Good news: progress done.
For those interested in the movie commentary I had been working on, movie 1 and 2 are near completion and Rebellion is next! Might as well release the first two film commentary notes before moving on to Rebellion, so look forward to them SOON!


>For those interested in the movie commentary I had been working on, movie 1 and 2 are near completion and Rebellion is next! Might as well release the first two film commentary notes before moving on to Rebellion, so look forward to them SOON!
They're notes, not subs right?

I was the guy originally asking about them here. Thanks for doing them, and looking forward to it.

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Well, those are only two scenes. What about the intro episodes, where they sounded weird? What about the script mistakes? I'm glad to see these scenes improved, but I still want to see if they spent efforts elsewhere.



Well the person who uploaded said they might upload more, and the dub just came out, I'll be sure to update when ever there is a new upload.


I'm surprised BDMV's aren't up yet. It's been out for a week right? At least someone should just rip the audio so we can compare.

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Should we make a Freudian psychoanalysis thread or psychoanalysis thread in general? (For example personality types, diagnose Homura as autistic or not)


>diagnose Homura as autistic or not
Unless we're talking about /a/'s definition of autism, let's not do this.


Okay what about this then?

Do you think the characters are dumb or just average for their age? What do you think of the viewpoint of some haters and non-fans when they think the characters' dumbness detract from the quality of the show?

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First off-topic post in /meduka/
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Someone buy her a lifetime of tablet pens, please…


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…that is creepy.

And once had a computer program that did things like that…


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Would you cuddle a meguca?


Should they will it so before their sanity has dissipated, I shall oblige.


Yes, but I wouldn't want to interfere with them cuddling each other.


Two lolis fit on me chest though.


Ya a bird?

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I remember brief discussion about this phone and its strange behavior when dropped, but I don't remember a consensus being reached about what was the reason. If there's been discussion that I've missed, this thread might be pointless, but I have a theory about this phone and its meaning:

It's a feather.


Could be, but I honestly just think it's another way to demonstrate how reality's completely going out the window.


But there are feathers just before that.

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limited edition exhibition booklet from a special Rebellion screening

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Kaori Mizuhashi(Mami)
Q1: What does new Madoka Magica movie mean to you?
A: I was always waiting. The story i wanted to see.
Q2: Say something to transformed Homura-chan!
A: I understand your feelings, almost too much.
Q3: What scene did you like in the movie, what scene was memorable?
A: Gunkata scene with Homura. And the transformation scene.
Q4: Did you keep something in mind during the production?
A: To work my hardest with the perfomance. And after it's over, to forget everything and be a normal fan. It was kinda fun, but hard too…
Q5: Please say something to visiting fans.
A: By all means, please enjoy Madoka's world. Best regards!


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Eri Kitamura(Sayaka)
Q1: What does new Madoka Magica movie mean to you?
A: An existence that opposed, uprooted, betrayed and reconstructed the MadoMagi series.
Q2: Say something to transformed Homura-chan!
A: Let's talk for an hour.
Q3: What scene did you like in the movie, what scene was memorable?
A: The scene with Homura and Sayaka opposing each other, the lines there have a lot of subtle nuances that were directed during the after-recording. It was hard, but I was immersed in the act, trying to play a worthy character.
Q4: Did you keep something in mind during the production?
A: How to carry over the "Sayaka" built up until now and how to reconstruct her.
Q5: Please say something to visiting fans.
A: Please give it lots of love.


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Ai Nonaka(Kyouko)
Q1: What does new Madoka Magica movie mean to you?
A: New movie is an important meeting with Kyouko. An important work. I would be very happy if it was a movie that remained in everyone's hearts.
Q2: Say something to transformed Homura-chan!
A: "By the way… How about ramen?", that kind of joke, but from now on I can't take my eyes off Homura-chan.
Q3: What scene did you like in the movie, what scene was memorable?
A: The transformation scene. I was happy that the grief seed, that had strongly negative image, was used as a proper magical item. And the scene of holding hands with Sayaka.
Q4: Did you keep something in mind during the production?
A: Starting without outlaw image, Kyouko's role wasn't Kyouko-like, but it still was Kyouko, so I had to be careful while acting… There was also a feeling that everything is in Urobuchi-san's world.
Q5: Please say something to visiting fans.
A: To people who came today, really thank you. Even if you are by yourself, have a double dose of fun! Not lonely at all!! Until you go home, it's Madoka Magika exhibition.


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Emiri Katou(QB)
Q1: What does new Madoka Magica movie mean to you?
A: Surprise, what a twist!! Zuko-!!
Q2: Say something to transformed Homura-chan!
A: Every love is beautiful… Homura-chan…
Q3: What scene did you like in the movie, what scene was memorable?
A: I like the scene where Madoka pats QB's head!!!
Q4: Did you keep something in mind during the production?
A: To play a correct QB no matter what happens. When i read the script, I was trembling a lot…
Q5: Please say something to visiting fans.
A: There are a lot of things that you can see only here, so please, come back to visit Madoka's world by all means!!


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Q1: What does new Madoka Magica movie mean to you?
A: Circus
Q2: Say something to transformed Homura-chan!
A: Somehow, I still want to believe in you
Q3: What scene did you like in the movie, what scene was memorable?
A: I only performed my lines with a happy voice, but from that scene on I started wondering about many things related to Nagisa's character.
Q4: Did you keep something in mind during the production?
A: I'll do things I need to do with my full strength, as always!
Q5: Please say something to visiting fans.
A: She's a new character, but please treat Nagisa well.

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Is this the best theory for how Homura was able to overpower Madokami and rewrite the universe?
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Looking it up, the term first appeared around the time neo-Confucianism tried to separate itself from the Confucianism that had assimilated into Buddhism and Shinto. They used the term to refer to evil beings they didn't believe in, and the term was re-established by the shinbutsu sects to refer to their own evil deities. Japanese later borrowed the term to refer to the Christian devil. The term today is not attached to any one religion, but many monsters and demons from both Japanese and Western folklore have been called "akuma" as a general term since. No specifics on the definition, though.

I'd probably still go with the idea that Japanese people (at least Urobuchi, Shinbo, and the rest of the staff except maybe Kajiura) aren't as fluent in Western religion, so their conceptions of a "kami" and "akuma" are probably very Japanese, no matter their intention. I'd like to hear their personal views on the term, though…


Rather than call them "Magical Girls" or "Witches", maybe we should just refer to them as "pieces of the Law of Cycles." The extent to which we know anything about their ability to transform into either form is from that booklet, and all it says is that they were able to transform into (or summon) their Witch forms at will. The Japanese for the line you're referring to is more vague, as it bring Octavia as the subject, and then explains Octavia's relationship with Sayaka. If they had a description of Sayaka with Ocatavia in it, I could see it being written vice-versa, too.


True that they don't, especially after absorbing so many different influences to religion. Doesn't mean the connotations don't hold though. Akuma from Street Fighter is actually named Gouki in Japan, but it's a pretty apt choice. He is the personification of someone tempted purely by the physical power of martial arts and rejects its spiritual pursuits.

True, it's also used to refer to western demons like the Goetia, condemning foreign gods and in folk beliefs, personifications of calamity. My point though, is that it isn't a term that is meant in direct opposition to Shinto's idea of 'myriad gods'(yaoyorozu no kami) where a different mindset originally exists(where evil and disastrous entities can still be
called gods), but instead a term that came into use and is appropriated for the enemies of later deities that came into play
with other religions. If someone calls a being 'akuma' it only means as much as a western person claiming something is 'The Devil itself'. It's even used to curse that way.

I'm not opposed to using 'Demon' to translate though, it works. I just don't agree on the idea that 'very japanese' concepts of 'gods' and 'demons' means putting the originally foreign concepts to the side. They've been there for centuries. If anything 'very Japanese' should mean very mixed and borrowed religious ideas and traditions. Madoka as a universal force and as a representation of salvation and enlightenment to all magical girls and Homura as the conceptual opposition who roots herself into the mortal world and pulls Madoka back down out her own worldly desire. They are depicted as God and Devil, Buddha and Mara as much as any other Japanese idea of the divine and its opposite.


Anon, do you honestly believe that what you yourself just described is an accurate description of the associations and connotations that "devil" or "god" holds for the majority of the western audience?

In my experience it most definitely is not. Indeed, that is the reason we're having this particular discussion in the first place. We commonly see arguments that can be logically reduced to something like:

P1: Madoka is god.
P2: X is an attribute of god.
C: Therefore X is an attribute of Madoka.


P1: Homura is a devil.
P2: Y is an attribute of devils.
C: Therefore Y is an attribute of Homura.

where P2 is true for Abrahamic monotheism but false in general. The "mixed and borrowed" perspective you describe is not the common one in the west. For a significant chunk of the audience over here, Yahweh and Satan absolutely dominate the interpretation of "god"/"devil" effectively drowning out all other perspectives.


Yes, if I google for "akuma". But what if a Japanese person googles for "悪魔"?


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The French interview in May 2013 and now this… You guys buying that there's going to be S2?? If that poster's fake it's really well done.

I don't think Sayaka alone can carry 25 episodes though — Most likely I think new characters would have to be introduced.
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Lol I was kinda lost as well, so thank you. XD
I personally think it's too early for another sequel series. Well, maybe not too early to start thinking about it, but definitely too early to put it together already. I wonder who might write it. Urobuchi's likely referring to his own involvement as a supervisor here.


Regardless of how you think about Sayaka regarding shipping and whatelse, I think she would make by far the most interesting "good" main character among the 3 possible choices (her, Mami, Kyoko).
They could also do a new character of course but then of course, but then she wouldn't tie into the previous mythology.


Aren't you forgetting someone?


You mean Nagisa?


No, he means Santa Claus.

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