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Being meguca is suffering
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 No.11967

>>11963

From my understanding even if you're lobotomized your body's physical make up would still eventually decompose like… a lightbulb in a room left on, or an engine without maintenance, it will eventually ware itself down and ultimately cease to function. In this case death would eventually come to those whose "hearts" are snatched.

I feel that Madoka's world balances out entirely with the witches world. Madoka formulated a world that would equally spread out suffering and not concentrate it to little girl tears, now it's everyone's tears. A wraith does not immediately kill so it is more likely to save people rather than an instant inescapable death from a witch or her labyrinth.

R

 No.11970

the girls bodies are not normal human bodies; we know they decompose because of zombie sayaka, we don't know it the decomposition can be stopped, tho.

 No.12004

>>11970

We don't know if it can be stopped permannently, but we do know that the body can be preserved with magic. We know that from two seperate details:
1) Kyoko preserving Sayaka's body in the hopes of saving her after her transformation.

2) The dialogue in which QB explains that even if the girls don't go around "using magic", they still expend a little bit keeping their "body" intact, so they will always eventually need grief seeds no matter what.

The difference here is that if somewhere were lobotobomized or comatose, etc, they wouldn't be able to actively use magic to use magic to preserve their body.

Even if the basic maintenance of their body was "automatic" they'd eventually run out of magic and then be unable to go kill a witch for a grief seed.

 No.12005

>>12004
Actually, writing that out made me think. These are just some random ideas here….

When Sayaka is talking to Kyoko in the train station shortly before transforming into Oktavia she states that once a girl has suffered enough despair to balance out the hope that she wished for that it's all over and witchdom then ensues. That would imply that the transformation to a witch actually requires the experience of suffering, rather than simply having one's soul gem go black from using too much magic. If that is true then a girl who was in a coma, lobotomized, etc, wouldn't actually become a witch because she wouldn't actually be suffering. A similar situation might happen if the girl in question was drunk, high on drugs, or otherwise was unable to feel any suffering. Or if the magical girl was some kind of masochist or for some other reason didn't "suffer" the same way that normal people do?

Then again, it was also stated by Homura that once the soul gems "turn black" then the girls are reborn as witches. So perhaps a girl could become a witch for either of two reasons:
1) suffering, as Sayaka stated
or
2) using too much magic

 No.12007

>>12005
The reasons are more or less combined. Suffering causes the soul gem to become tainted/turn black, causing the girl to run out of magic. On the other hand, running out of magic puts one on the precipice of "death," which inspires fear and despair in a magical girl, facilitating them towards turning into a witch. Remember that Madoka immediately turns into a witch after one-shotting Walpurgisnacht in the previous timeline.

 No.12008

>>12007
>>one-shotting Walpurgisnacht
Right. So what exactly was the "final straw"?

-She used all her magic to take down Walpurgisnacht in one shot and so became a witch because using all her magic blackened her soul gem? That is theoretically possible, sure. But it seems a bit odd. I can't imagine Madoka as a "glass cannon" who dumped literally ALL her magic into one shot.

-She didn't use all her magic. Instead, she suffered a great deal at that exact moment, causing her to become a witch out of despair? Again, that's technically possible, but it also seems unlikely. Why exactly would Madoka "suffer" immediately upon defeating Walpurgisnacht? The timing seems a bit odd, as does the fact that she'd suffer at all for that specific reason.

…or is it something else entirely? Could there be a third factor here—some kind of "fate" angle?

 No.12010

>>12008
The former.

 No.12012

>>12008
well if you look at the PSP game, Madoka slays Walpurgis and there is a moment of stasis, then she starts feeling weird. She then abruptly witches out. there might be something where in that one shot all of her magical energy is actually FORCED out of her, which then causes her to witch out as her magic count is an infinite negative, (meaning even if grief seeds were available they would have no effect) which turns her into Gretchen.

 No.12080

>>12004
I don't think Kyouko did anything magic with Sayaka's body other than dragging it out of the labyrinth. I guess for most witches, their body is never found because it gets dragged along with them (I'm not sure if it would decompose in this situation). In Sayaka's case, when her body was found, IIRC there was nothing unusual about it except uncertainty about the cause of death. Presumably it was just as rotten as one would expect for however many days it had been since her soul left it.

 No.12081

>>12008
>>12012

I don't know if there are any semi-canon sources which specify what Madoka's wish was in the penultimate timeline, but if it was something like, "I wish for the ability to defeat Walpurgisnacht!" then it seems inevitable that she would have just enough magic to do that and only that.

 No.12084

>>12080
>>I don't think Kyouko did anything magic with Sayaka's body other than dragging it out of the labyrinth.

No, she actively used magic to keep Sayaka's body fresh. There was even dialogue about this in episode 9. Kyoko is shown using her soul gem on Sayaka and QB asks her why she is expending so much magical power on a corpse. It's very clearly stated.



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