read the other spinoffs or kirara magica; if you consider the amdoak universe following the antropic rules explained in musakiiro no qualia, where the reason homura can't save madoka is that the only universes in which homura is looping is in the universes where she can't save madoka, the rest of the spinoffs are the universe in which homura can save madoka, has saved madoka or saving madoka is not necesary (there's also some of this in steins;gate).
so they are in some sense canon, just not related to the rule of homura can't save madoka.
Let's not. Again.
>op didn't say a thing about canonity yet you immediately go for the 'TDS IS NOT CANON LOL' route
Rebellion brought her friends back to life and even gave her a loli to act as a mother for. That's a happy ending. It just so happens she's going to fuck it up in the next installment.
>>12669>Lives at the end of the series and gets to play senpai to a group of megucas >gets to play mother/secret lover to a loli
She's gotten two happy endings already and will likely get a third. The series gives thematically appropriate endings and all of its characters ultimately receive redemption/salvation in some form or another.
>trapped inside the mind of a pervert>happy ending>>12676
she was dead at the end of the series
TDS is more canon than Rebellion.
>>12677>Mami was dead at the end of the series
Why does this series attract so many fucking retards?
What makes you say that?
All we know from the TV series is that Mami was taken away by the LoC, as per Madoka's wish. Literally, she was "destroyed by Madoka's own hands". Calling her "dead" seems pretty reasonable.
If we factor in Rebellion, then she's "taken away to the salvation of oblivion". Again, it's pretty reasonable to use the term "dead" here.
It's only after reading the Rebellion production notes in detail that one learns that there is some kind of LoC-Meguca collective. But that has nothing to to with what we would conclude form watching the TV series.
Just what are you talking about? Mami was NEVER taken away by the law of cycles. Do you even pay attention to what you're watching?
She was alive at the end of the series and at the end of Rebellion. So no, "dead" is not a reasonable term.
Mami's soul gem got crused when her head got bitten off by Charlotte in episode 3 of the main timeline of the TV series.
Madoka's wish was to "destroy all witches in all timelines before they are born with her own hands".
So either she's dead in the normal sense (killed by Charlotte), or she's taken by the LoC (which we were never shown, but someone might presume possible).
What makes you think she's still alive at the end of the TV?
>>12685>What makes you think she's still alive at the end of the TV?
Gee, I don't fucking know, the fact that she's shown alive and well?
In what episode/scene, anon?
AFIK, the last time we see Mami in the main timeline is in episode 3, during which she gets her head eaten. What scene in the TV main timeine shows her alive after that point?
To elaborate and perhaps confuse even more, Mami being killed in ep 3 is why she's alive in the end of TV and in Rebellion.
Are you fucking retarded? She was SHOWN to be alive and well in the last episode of the series.
>Madoka's wish was to "destroy all witches in all timelines before they are born with her own hands".
I think you're misinterpreting her wish. Mami's soul gem was crushed by a witch in episode 3. That's how she died. So if Madoka erases all witches before they are born, then the witch that killed Mami in episode 3 couldn't exist. Therefore, Mami's death in episode 3 would not be possible after Madoka's wish.
Same goes for Kyoko. She sacrificed herself while fighting Sayaka's witch. Since Sayaka would be taken away before becoming a witch, Kyoko's sacrifice wouldn't be possible too.
I hope you're trolling because I don't understand how you're not getting this.
>>12688>>12691>>She was SHOWN to be alive and well in the last episode of the series.
Perhaps I am some kind of moron, but that sure looked like some kind of "Dream sequence" or "interaction in Heaven" rather than literal reality.
Did you even read what I wrote properly? Mami can't be dead BECAUSE of Madoka's wish. I don't understand how you would see that as a dream sequence.
Even if it was, that wouldn't explain why Mami was alive in Rebellion and why she wasn't with Sayaka and Bebe while Madokami descended down to get Homura. However, if she was alive by the end of the series, then everything that happens to her in Rebellion ties up.
Tbh I want to hear what this anon thinks of Rebellion.
This thread was asking for it tbqh.
>>12696>>Mami can't be dead BECAUSE of Madoka's wish.
No, I follow your logic there. It makes perfect sense that if Charlotte never became a witch then she couldn't have killed Mami.
>>I don't understand how you would see that as a dream sequence.
Depends on which scene we are talking about. The scene that I interpreted as a "dream sequence" was the one in which Madoka, Mami, and Kyoko are sitting around Mami's triangular glass table talking about the nature of Madoka's wish. That was the scene I was talking about. That seems like a dream sequence to me because that's the impression that I got from watching the show: The sound effects, the characters mysteriously appearing at Mami's table, the nature of their conversation, etc.
I had completely forgotten about the scene shown in >>12693
. That one is certainly no dream sequence, and I stand corrected.
>>12700>The scene that I interpreted as a "dream sequence" was the one in which Madoka, Mami, and Kyoko are sitting around Mami's triangular glass table talking about the nature of Madoka's wish.
You're correct about that, but that was also only 10 or so minutes into the episode.
That was the only appearance of Mami in that episode that I happened to remember. I had somehow completely forgotten about the scene shown in >>12693
Because so many watchers either completely fail to pay attention to very obvious portions of the anime, or horrendously misconstrue the events, which results in retarded discussion.
that's a nice touch
It really doesn't help that some people in this base are so adamantly vocal despite being so wrong. >>12704
Is Mami looking for a Papi to raise her Bebe?
>>12694>Mami looking at wedding dresses>>12705>Is Mami looking for a Papi to raise her Bebe?
Not sure if you're joking (apologies in advance if you were), but the wedding dresses are to symbolically represent (and subtly foreshadow) Homura's relationship with Madoka in physical form, in that she'd rather have her by her side (in a similar manner to a married couple) then join her in the Meguca heaven/collective hive mind/whatever it is, and has nothing to do with Mami whatsoever…
Besides, Rebellion was Homura's movie; most, if not all, of the imagery throughout the movie was directly describing her and her relationship with Madoka, and the other characters to a lesser extent…
no because she'll marry with me>>12706
wedding dresses are there to show that mami knows that she'll never have a normal life yet still have the same dreams of any regular girl
not everything in rebellion is about homura and her lesbian relationship
Yeah, I'm sure you got that from a .6 second shot. It's Mami doing normal girl shit. >>12707
I don't think it was that. Mami smiling and acting like a normal girl looking at wedding dresses isn't a big deal. Kyouko was eating and KyouHito were on a date. It was just them doing normal shit. Not everything is there to think that hard about.
This is the second fucking thing this fan base can learn: sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. There's not deep meaning in every frame of animation.
I agree, but I don't blame the over-reading anons at all because it's hard to trust Shinbo to not be symbolic at this point.
>sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. There's not deep meaning in every frame of animation
that's not even true for movies, let alone anime movies
Symbolism is more prominent in the background than in the foreground. Mami looking at the wedding dress was just her doing some window shopping (normal girl shit) Her being married ties in with her character though in not wanting to be alone, to have someone by her side always.
Kyoko's indulging of food is just a simple cut to show she's enjoying life
Butterdick and green stain were shown that their relationship had been going swimmingly since the end of rebellion to establish that they are infact together dispite the disappearence of their friend Sayaka (Which may have actually reinforced their relationship as they both lost a dear friend)
basically what was in those snippets was something we immediately get at face value, nothing more cryptic than what's on screen. :I
Save the analyzing for when we get that new project
their relationship had been going swimmingly since the end of the **TV series
[edit button when]
But why wedding dresses instead of regular dresses?
There's no such thing as coincidence in cinema.
It's not trash; it's just stilted and full of cliches when compared to other forms of media…
No, but the fan base is.
No, it's just the issue of crowd sourcing and what's edited/created. Wikipedia suffers from a similar issue regarding pop culture articles being overly detailed compared to actual historical events or lesser known historical figures.
The the type of people who use and edit TvTropes are overwhelming otaku and gamers, hence why the anime and gaming sections are massive compared to say literature or theatre. They're largely ignorant to outside of said interests.
You can see it in this fan base too: despite Rebellion and the concept movie making use of the works of Tchaikovsky as morifs, some people are convinced that the new work will be based off Princess TuTu. Completely missing that TuTu itself is based off of a Tchaikovsky work.
>>12723>The the type of people who use and edit TvTropes are overwhelming otaku and gamers
That's precisely the reason to think that anime is trash.
Why? What does the nature of the people editing a particular website have anything whatsoever to do with the media in question?
Premise #1: tvtropes is shit.
Premise #2: people who like tvtropes also like anime.
Premise #3: things that are liked by the same people tend to have similar qualities.
Conclusion #1: anime is liked by people who like shit.
Conclusion #2: therefore, anime likely has similar qualities as shit.
>>12730>Responding to this shit posting autist>>12731>Hur dur animu is shit>As I post on a dedicated anime image board
Fuck off, Anno.
t. butthurt tvtropesfag
In a way, she gets one. Of all the characters, she is the most likely to be improved on and expanded the most. Behind her is the tragedy that is Sayaka.
It's easy to expand a character with 0 development.
Finally someone who got that. I was tired at seeing people thinking Madoka was going to "ripoff" Princess Tutu>>12864
She had a decent development in the series, not to mention the cd drama that got expanded in TDS. Besides, both her and Kyoko had little development compared to Sayaka and Homura yet they were equally popular as them
What are you talking about? All characters had proper development in anime.
>>12865>Finally someone who got that
It really shouldn't be that hard to get, but here we are. Mami was refered to as Guan Yu, the Buddho-Confucian god of battle from the Ro3K. Instead of doing a simple Google search on Guan Yu or what is meant by 'god of battle' in an Asian context, you have people going on about Mami being the goddess of war just as Madoka and Homura are goddesses. Honestly, the 3 Kingdoms and the Swan Lake stuff got me excited because it seems like we will have a definitive finale (what becomes of the story's Faust/Gretchen, Nut Cracker/Maria, Yin/Yang, and now apparently Siegfried/Odile, who's 'will' emerges as the victor of the three parties we have seen challanging each other throughout the series, and who will our "god of battle' bless and fight beside in the final confrontation?). This doesn't even include what twists we will see thrown in from Nagisa, Kyouko, Sayaka, and any other actors that emerge for the new project.
I should point out that if they're going to use other references to literature, then Siegfried's wife in The Nibelungenlied is Gudrun, also known as Kriemhild, and she goes on a revenge streak to avenge Siegfried's murder in "Kriemhild's Revenge", part 2 of The Nibelungenlied. Hmmm…
Mami and Kyouko had short but concise development, which was expanded with the drama CDs/TDS. Madoka and Sayaka had more because they're supposely the "heroines" of the series. Homura had an entire episode which is huge for a 12ep anime.
But it doesn't matter anymore because Rebellion threw everything out of window and now we have deviantart-style versions of the girls as canon, tho.
don't you mean Tumblr?
It's obvious Mami will fight alongside the other magical girls and against Homura. In the concept movie she was holding one of Sayaka's swords.
Unless something happened that forced Homura to join the good guys again, due to having to fight an even greater threat… (Incubator resurgence, Clara Doll rebellion, wraiths, etc.)
>>12974>Basing any confirmations on no context concept art>>12975
There's a very strong possibility of two Homuras. There are two Madoka's present during the splitting. Wraith Arc alone was enough to suggest that Homura and the devil are the same being, but have seperate consciousnesses.
Basing any wishful thinking about the upcoming movie on nothing at all.
>>12729>>12731>>12734>complaining about anime on a dedicated anime imageboard
I wasn't complaining about anime, I was complaining about tvtropes.
>>12990>I was complaining about tvtropes
Then carry on.
>>12990>That's precisely the reason to think that anime is trash.>Conclusion #1: anime is liked by people who like shit.>Conclusion #2: therefore, anime likely has similar qualities as shit.
This doesn't sound like just complaining about tvtropes to me.
I said it's a reason to THINK anime is trash. I didn't say it's a reason why anime actually is trash.
Nothing confirmed. I don't see Mami trying to lock lips, celestial rape, or hold hands in a non platonic fashion with the cheese.
I am so sick of this Mami is a pedophile meme…
1)There is ZERO canon evidence that Mami and Nagisa are anything other than friends or that Mami is interested in becoming anything other than friends. For that matter, *Mami doesn't even know that Nagisa is human* until shortly before they're pitched into an intense battle against Homura's witch. If you insist on reading Mami's attachment to "Bebe" as romantic rather than platonic, that means that she's attracted to animate, only loosely humanoid dolls, not little girls.
2)Let's look at that age difference, shall we? Japan is very strict about the ages at which children can begin a certain school year, which usually begins around April 5th. Even if a child is born on April 6th and is a bonafide genius, they're out of luck and have to wait a year.
From background details, eg Homura's calender, the foliage, etc… it is extremely likely that the series takes place towards the very beginning of the school year.
Mami is in 9th grade, for which you must be 14. Unless her birthday is extremely soon after term starts, she's still 14 during the series. If her birthday squeaked in just before the start of term, she's just barely 14 and is probably technically only a few months older than the rest of the Mitakahara 5. At the oldest, she cannot possibly be 16, which is not an adult, and hence cannot by any recognizable definition of the word, be a pedophile.
But we're looking at what the age difference actually is, so, continuing on…
Nagisa isn't shown in a middle school uniform, so we can assume she hasn't started yet. Since you have to be 12 to begin 7th grade (first year of middle school in Japan), we know she isn't 13 yet.
However, Kyubey targets girls going through PUBERTY, so it's highly unlikely she's much younger, either.
Most girls actually get their first period at 12, which fits with being targeted by Kyubey while not being in middle school yet. If her birthday is shortly after the enrollment cutoff date while Mami's is just before, there is barely a 2 year age difference between them. Just like there is between the couple Aang and Katara in the American made, for kids, tv show Avatar the Last Airbender. Even if Japan is fine with Lolicon, you would never be able to get that crap in front of an American children's audience.
So, if you're still insisting that Mami is a pedophile despite the complete lack of canon evidence for romantic entanglements, and the absolutely canon compliant arguments that they're neither old enough nor far enough apart in age for the term "pedophilia" to even apply, don't try to blame anyone for your interpretation but YOUR OWN sick imagination and jaw-dropping inability to use a dictionary.
>>13092>Even if Japan is fine with Lolicon, you would never be able to get that crap in front of an American children's audience.
What does that have to do with anything? As far as I know, Madoka isn't aimed at children (14 up), isn't airred on US TV, and is licensed by the same company who brought Monogatari over to the US. Studio Shaft and Akiyuki Shinbo have never had a problem doing loli. Shaft has definitely pushed MamiNagi, albeit not to the degree they push MadoHomu or KyouSaya.
Mami is also 15
Nagisa is between 8 and 12
Age of consent in Japan is 14. This makes Mami a pedophile.
The legal age of consent in Japan 13, however, it is illegal for people over the age of 18 to have sex with people who are 4+ years younger than them.
Not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's wrong.
Then you've only strengthened my argument. Mami is a pedophile because the InuCurry notes have her down as 8 for the series and 12 for Rebellion. Hell, Nagisa spends the entire movie how much she loves eating cheese. Did you think she was talking about food?
No, I made your argument totally null.
There isn't a 4 year age gap between Mami and Nagisa, so it doesn't matter.
She's under 13 retard. Considering the Japanese are calling Mami a pedo, I don't know why you think you're correct.
The irony is in you calling other people retards but not being able to read.
Age of consent works by varying age range when under the age of 18.
17yr w/ 10yr = Illegal
13yr w/ 10yr = Legal
This really isn't that complex or hard to understand.
You are also ignoring Romeo and Juliet laws, which yes, even Japan has.
Pedophilia: [ped-uh-fil-ee-uh or, esp. British, pee-duh-]
sexual desire in an ADULT for a child. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pedophilia?s=t
Age of majority in Japan is 20. Mami is, at oldest, 15. 15 is younger than 20. Therefore, Mami cannot be a pedophile.
Try not to use words you don't understand, dipshit(s). It's not a good look on anyone.
That's not in Rebellion, so it's not canon. Even if it's official art, it still doesn't mean jack. If Shinbo and Urobutchi (the director and writer) can't even agree if the Madoka Homura speaks to in the flower field is the "real" Madoka (Shinbo says yes, Urobutchi says no) then why should we give a damn that some schmoe in marketing is a pervert and pedophile themselves?
Actual canon or shut up.>>13095
It means a 2-year age gap is small enough between minors, even when one is 12, that even a country as sexually prudish as the US doesn't blink an eye at it. (We gave 50 Shades of Gray a hard R while France gave it a PG-13 equivalent bcs it was so tame.)
>>13101>The Age of Consent in Japan is 13 years old. The age of consent is the minimum age at which an individual is considered legally old enough to consent to participation in sexual activity. Individuals aged 12 or younger in Japan are not legally able to consent to sexual activity, and such activity may result in prosecution for statutory rape or the equivalent local law.>Nagisa Momoe's age listed as 8-12
Christ you're stupid.>>13102>Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
Prepubescent is defined as 10-12.>>13103
Go ask anyone if they'd be cool with a relationship between a 12 and 15 year old.
Shit posting aside, on the Madoka part, you missed the point to what both Butcher and Shinbo were saying. It's the real Madoka, but it's a Madoka who is missing her complete memories. Urobuchi was talking about the writing process and how the three Madoka's were essentially three different characters. The problem with that interview is that it's from a really shitty translation from LiveJournal that had a lot of other glaring translations that were directly contradicted by officially translated interviews.
We then get into the long running debate of is it really Madoka if she doesn't have all her memories? Is it closer to the 'true' Madoka because she's not burden to make a make a decision and thus her answer to Homura is honest in that setting? Is Homura fulfilling a promise to the person she loves and knows would never want to be spare dher fate? Or is she chasing a phantom that no longer exists?
Realistically we wont get any answers until the sequel as Rebellion supported multiple interpretations,
Can you go back to tumblr and just stay there. Like, never post anywhere outside your small blog. Ever.
You don't even read anything you are replying to and you do not understand how age of consent works.
Two minors having sex is not the same as a person who is over the age of 18 having sex with someone who is under the age of 18.
And I like how you FULLY ignored Romeo and Juliet laws even after they were pointed out to you.
Looks like ack found this board.
Who's that? Don't bother replying if you don't have any actual proof. Ghost hunting is one of the most obnoxious things to have ever existed.
Why do you ask who ack is if you know who he is?
Oh, so you have proof then?
And I don't know who ack is.
Sounds like something you made up.
Holy shit it is ACK.
>>13113>suddenly tons of people start yelling about some random person who yields exactly no google results
It's much more likely they you are just speaking with yourself and trying to bluster your lies with sock puppets.
>>13116>Japan statutory rape law is violated when an individual has consensual sexual contact with a person under age 13. At 13, Japan's base age of consent is the lowest of any developed country. However, many prefectures also have local "corruption of minors" or "obscenity statutes" (淫行条例) which raise the de-facto age of consent to 16-18, unless they are in a "sincere romantic relationship", usually determined by parental consent.
It only applies to 13 or or over, dipshit.
What you're replying to proves you wrong. Thanks for once again showing you do not actually read anything at all. You are just obsessed with this issue for some reason.
And no, that doesn't apply to people over the age of 13 or older, because then it wouldn't be an exception, it would just be the standard rule.
Again, why do you not just stay on tumblr. They are the only group of retards who are actually obsessed with this issue.
I think all this arguing about legal specifics is completely missing the point.
We're dealing with fictional characters whose physical characteristics have little, if anything, to do with actual age.
Look at the literal definition as posted earlier:>>13102>>sexual desire in an ADULT for a child.
Now let's look at the characters. Mami, though supposedly an under-age middle schooler, certainly appears to be post-pubescent given her..ahem…assets. Not to mention her behavior in Rebellion towards Nagisa is clearly parent-like. And likewise Nagisa appears to be pre-pubescent. Physically, we're certainly talking about an "adult" and a "child".
There's nothing overtly sexual in PMMM, but fans will of course dream that up (rule 34 and all that). So assuming there is a sexual side to this it's pretty easy to see where the "pedo" angle comes from.
The arbitrary ages of anime/game characters are the complicating factor here. It's like when someone accuses an Etna fan of being a pedo only for them to spout back….but…but…she's 800+ years old. Yeah sure, she sure looks 800 to me. (pic related)
I'll be in my bunk
I was talking about what appears in the TV series and the movies.
I don't recall that scene from either. I do like it though!
I think that might be a fan edit of official art. Or then the official art was lewder than I remember.
>>13125>Homura's Dark orb wraps itself around Madoka's sealed power
This is just a visual representation.>>13126
There's 2 versioins, both official. This one is the less lewd one. The other has Homura's knee between Madoka's legs.